Steve Payne
The (Ontario College of Trades) consultant will dream up a whole new way of shafting all the rest of you guys.
Canadian Contractor Business ExcessBureaucrat Tony Dean appointed to "review" the Ontario College of Trades. "I am so relieved that another unqualified 'suit' has been appointed to oversee all the other clueless suits at OCOT," writes contractor Mark Mitchell.
The Ontario Government has decided to “review” the Ontario “College” of Trades, now in its second year of sending out invoices to contractors to maintain the right to keep the C of Q you have already earned and have been repeatedly paying for – to another regulatory body that will continue to operate. Sounds insane? Not to the bureaucrats getting careers out of this, it doesn’t.
The consultant doing the review will be long-time public sector bureaucrat Tony Dean.
Here’s what contractor Mark Mitchell had to say about that.
“I’m so relieved that another unqualified “suit” has been appointed to oversee all the other clueless suits at OCOT. Again and again these well-heeled policy makers are making decisions about peoples’ lives and livelihood that they have no idea how they work. OCOT uses the same buzzwords, about industry consultation, and membership advantages, when the only industry they consult is the construction unions and management from large construction companies. Their “consulting” would take on a different shape if they asked questions of actual tradesmen, construction workers, and small to medium contractors of all types. We hate excess regulation. Just ask any HVAC or electrical contractor how many licences he must hold, and how many regulators he has to pay to legitimately stay in business. A licensed electrician is not allowed to run his own business unless he pays ESA a head tax. Same for a Gas Fitter, who must prove to TSSA that he is worthy of obtaining a contractor’s license before he is allowed to work for himself. Then he must pay them every year, so they can hire someone to make sure he has paid them. How did we let these parasites get so much power? We were working, and too tired to follow every news article, and provincial Bill, that came along. Now we are getting shafted again, and OCOT is reaping the rewards of our labour. This consultant will dream up a whole new way of shafting all the rest of you guys, and until we all put our tools down and stop working for these a-wipes, they won’t get the message.”
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I have been reading Canadian Contractor since you started emailing it to me…..I have no idea how I got on your list, but whatever. There seems to be a main theme here, a problem with accepting the requirement for any type of licensing, formal training or oversight. “It is all just a government conspiracy & revenue stream”.
Yet, I have not seen a shred of evidence that anyone seems to know how the apprenticeship system works . No need if you have no use for it anyway. I work in ICI sector HVAC/R & have for 40 years. As such, I am not involved in home renovations as most of your readership seems to be. I do find it surprising the majority here seem to feel tearing someones house apart is a god given right to be executed without the need to demonstrate to any agency that they are competent.
I guess this is working for you, you can tell by the confidence home owners have in the renovation industry. Also, adding this notion that paying OCOT $120.00 a year is financially unsustainable for the tradesman & will result in a loss in sales due to the added overhead, is even more surprising. I am not certain what the pay rate is for labour in the residential sector, but I would guess at least $50K. In my trade it is more like $100K to $120K, but that is because we have formal training, licensing & oversight.
In either case $120 bucks is not going to break the bank. Sorry, can’t buy that excuse at all. Not sure where you guys are going with all of this, but I wish you luck. I was going to unsubscribe, but it is worth staying on the email list just for the entertainment value alone.
Cheers
Joe:
“I have no idea how I got on your list.” Well, if we have your email, you would have been asked if you wanted to get this publication emailed to you. There’s a law about that. It’s called the Canadian Anti-Spam Legislation. We abide by it.
You say our main theme is “That any type of licensing, formal training or oversight is all just a government conspiracy and revenue stream.” Please send me the articles where we say ANY type of licensing, or ANY type of training is allegedly conspiratorial. Would you do that for me? What we HAVE said, and we will repeatedly say, is that duplicate agencies that piggyback off existing agencies, such as the Ontario College of Trades, yet issue the most self-congratulatory public messages about how they are “protecting the consumer” and “promoting the trades” are a load of BS and ought to be called out as such. On the Ontario WSIB issue, which we have been following for a long while, we have an agency where the field auditors make up the rules as they go along (just ask Sean Keane about that one, and pretty well everyone else who has ever described their audits to us), where the CEO gets a $400,000 BONUS for simply having legislation passed that forces more types of individuals to pay into WSIB, where the Ontario Sunshine List is so replete with fat-earning WSIB and WSIAT types that it is disturbing as hell to even contemplate it, and where the organization itself can’t even pay out premiums to deserving WSIB claimants that keep pace with the rate of inflation. It is a badly-run organization, an unjustifiable monopoly, and the laughing stock of contractors from other provinces.
“I guess this is working for you, you can tell by the confidence home owners have in the renovation industry?” How much confidence homeowners have in the renovation industry has got nothing whatsoever to do with the Ontario College of Trades. It is a question of professional practices by contractors, not their tickets. There is NO ticketing or licensing program that is going to weed out the bad apples or take the lousy contractors off the streets.
“It’s worth staying on the email list just for the entertainment value alone.” I don’t find anything “entertaining” about out-of-control regulatory agencies taking money out of the pockets of hardworking independent home renovation contractors, sorry. We are not here to publish MAD magazine, National Lampoon or The Onion. We’re trying to stand up for a group of independent family owned contractors who, unlike HVAC/R contractors like you in the lucrative, highly-unionized world of ICI, have to scrounge money out of the pockets of the average consumer. Those consumers would just as soon go under the table and pay cash. That is NOT going to be helped by every government agency under the sun piggy backing their payrolls onto the backs of legitimate contractors who are identifiable by trying to stay legit. When the government is shutting down the under the table cash guys, instead of taxing the legitimate guys, we might have a point of agreement. That is NOT what is happening.
Happy Hallowe’en
That Joe guy for sure doesn’t run his own business. Sounds like a downtown Toronto union guy to me. That is a great job, but doesn’t reflect the average HVAC person in ONTARIO. Its the ONTARIO college of trades, not the GTA college of trades. Oh ya, and if $120 a year isn’t that big a deal Joe, can you pay mine for me?
Great reply Steve.
I dont know what the OCOT has to do with formal training or the apprenticeship system but then again what do you expect from a guy that dosent even know how he got on the list. But what ever !!!!!
Yes that was a great reply Steve !!!!!
Hey Mark,
That Joe for sure doesn’t run a business, but lets be be honest, if he would have brain he could be dangerous!
Thank you Steve for your great message!
As someone who holds a Gas fitter 1, residential air conditioning and commercial sheet metal certificate as well as RASDT certificate I find all the bitching and moaning about the ocot laughable. If you were a licensed contractor prior to the creation of the ocot you were paying fees to and governed by the Ontario college of trades. The creation of the ocot was to transfer the governance of the trades out of the public service and into a privately run and financed industry. You paid license fees to the Ontario college of trades and now you pay them to ocot. You are paying a little more but quite frankly if you are like me you are sick and tired of trunk slamming morons hijacking work from skilled tradesman to make a quick buck and run. The ocot came to my office once. I showed him the names of my staff, he verified we were licensed for what we were doing and moved on with a hand shake. There are 17 hvac companies in an area with maybe 40k people in it. Of those companies only a few are licensed properly and if your not you deserve the fines, if you cant pay them then go to jail. I am sick and tired of losing a custom ductwork job to a fking plumber who got his gas license in night school and figures he can do ductwork too. Bring on the inquisition the industry needs to get the butchers and hacks out of the trade.
Butchers and hacks are loved in Ontario as long as they pay taxes, OCOT will not do much, just look at their website on how many people they actually fined, somewhere along the lines of 10, give or take a few, the fines are also a joke at $250 a pop, I’m sure Mr unlicensed is laughing his head off as he writes the measly amount on the cheque.
Good reply Steve to the Joe guy,
He’s simplly seems all hot air and I’m assuming he has no clue what it’s like to be out there taking all the hits on the chin, like the self employed contractor have been doing the last number of years. Further thousands of homeowners have received highly skillful home renovations jobs completed by highly skilled home renovation tradesmen and we should know, as an Association representing the industry.(CARAHS).
Sound like Joe ‘ s could be on the board of the highly unionized OCOT or a card carring member of a union. He’s certainly not a home renovation contractor.
Thanks Steve for the great job you and the Canadian Contractor do for our industry. You give them a voice..
Alec Caldwell CARAHS
Steve, I did unsubscribe a while ago, but the stuff just keeps on coming.
I don’t recall an article in your publication that supports formal apprenticeship training or certification of current non mandatory trades. Witness your recent articles on carpentry as an example. I shall paraphrase ” experienced long term carpenters will find themselves out of a job just because they don’t have a ticket”. You get the idea…it’s always the same theme, doom & gloom & get everyone all worked up over nothing. No one will be out of work over this issue, it has never happen before, trust me, no government wants job losses. A good friend happens to be a C of Q holding carpenter, served his apprenticeship 35 years ago. This opened up opportunities which allowed him to advance his career to a level well beyond the typical public expectations of what a carpenter does. This is the same for all the certified trades, it does not teach everything, but teaches one how to learn what they need to know & importantly, that there is always more to know. This is not unique & also applies to non compulsory trades. There are no simple, secret “tricks of the trade” anymore in any trade, that notion is long gone.
I don’t recall seeing an article that supports this theme. Contrary themes, yes.
Over the years I have been a director on a national industry association board & a member on the R/AC PAC (provincial advisory council). As such, I have participated in the workings of a compulsory trade. Non compulsory trades operate the same way. Not perfect, but much better than having no structure at all. Sorry to say, but from what I have been reading, you guys don’t seem to be aware of how that works & don’t seem interested either. If I am wrong & you do know, why not educate your readership on the process instead of looking for the dark side of the issue?
I generally see provocatively worded headings in reference to OCOT or whatever agency you are having a problem with that day.
FYI…contrary to some of the comments…I have been a successful contractor & employer for 30 years & I have never been in a union over 40 years in my trade.
I too have been taking it on the chin & I am well aware of the problems with WSIB, CRA, EI, TSSA & a variety of other institutions.
As per the comments by Adrian, our trade has been under attack by illegals for the last 30 years & OCOT seems to be the only vehicle that may (stress may) be able to improve the situation. That works for me & I don’t really care if someone gets paid $100K to do it as long as I only have to pay $120.00 a year.
The primary problem now is the trades have been neglected by the public & educators for at least a generation. We are all getting older & there are not enough skilled people to take our places. Part of OCOT’s job is to improve the public perception of trades, both compulsory & non compulsory & market them to young people as a viable alternative to an academic career. This is a complex issue that will take some time & will need the cooperation of your readership. Historically, vacancies in the trades were filled by immigration, this is no longer the case & now it must come from within.
In my trade there seems to be adequate interest in apprenticeships, but finding the right contractor to work for is a problem. There are far too many illegals out there that pay peanuts, expose their employees to harm & never actually provide training or an apprenticeship. The candidate gets used, bruised & quits, never to return to the trade. All trades need to improve their performance. Why can’t we work on that, or is that just not interesting to your readership?
This is your magazine & you will no doubt have the last word, but in my opinion, it would do your publication good to up your game bit.
Regards
Joe
Heads up, I spoke with a “union” buddy yesterday.
I was told that in the last couple of weeks there was a meeting held in Toronto with about 300 CUPE members CUPE leaders are promoting requiring all maintenance staff, janitorial staff and contactor workers at the school boards in Ontario to come under the umbrella of the OCOT and forcing them to be licensed by them.
It is my understanding that the leadership was questioned by some of them about the meaning, the cost and the benefits, there was no response.
Just ran into a problem with the cards from OCOT, if you notice there is NO EXPIRY DATE on these cards. From an office stand point this a nightmare. Have to call their office or keep track of something that should be printed on the card like all the other licenses. This info is required by many companies when you are working for them. OCOT was called and we were told that this a “once in a lifetime card”. This is so they don’t have to shell out the money to replace unless the card is completely worn out.
Here is another comment on this, Steve: Another HVAC contractor, 20 years in business in Simcoe County (Barrie area) has closed his doors, citing excessive red tape, regulation, and bullying by government agencies as the reason. It is a sad reality for people that heat their homes with oil, that decent tradesmen are being forced out of the business, and their options for service are minimized. If there is no competition for the big guys, will pricing for home heating services go up or down?
That’s not a hard one to figure out. People that live in rural areas are the ones paying the price, The home heating and water heating business in Ont, and Canada are being taken over by BIG companies, that don’t really care about furnaces or water heaters, just the financing they can profit from when they make a sale or have a rental contract signed. These companies have lots of office staff to deal with all the red tape and bureaucracy, which is why they charge $78/month for 20 years for a new furnace that only costs $1200 at the wholesaler. Our lack of persistant opposition to the regulators that our driving our colleagues out of business is now catching up to those of us in the HVAC industry. How can other trades prevent this from happening to them?
The interesting part is: The people seems to have a chose only to vote, after that, they have to get used to the imposing rule.
Democracy, as the politicians pray on people, right,,,, just an elusion, looks more like a circus with all the clowns in action, on the tax payers cost.
To my view about the future in the small business, in this Province,
more and more small companies will close down. The costumers will not be able to afford paying high prices to the big corporations also companies on the unions, then we all can look into the rabbit hole.
Apparently in Quebec, there was a manifestation against the Liberal government this last weekend, are they waking up from the insanity, if so when
will be one manifestation here, Ontario.
A parasitic system what we have, on their best, creating parasitic tax agencies in all source of slogans, all for the good of the public interest and also the costumer protection, in what reality I would like to know.
This is not a surprise, but a load of crap just like anything associated with these organizations (ESA and T.C.O.T) I’ve owned and operated an electrical contracting company in ontario for the last 15 years. It was never easy, but I used to enjoy the challenges. Over the last 2 years I’ve contemplated just packing it in so many times it’s ridiculous! True, this is what the unions want so they can go back to doing nothing except TELLING people how great they are and overcharging to do it! If every non union tradesman packed up and moved on, Ontario would crash and burn in a matter of months and EVERYONE knows this!
It’s also been brought to my attention recently that as an electrical contracting company, it is now apparently “ILLEGAL” for us to hire a licensed electrician as a sub occasionally to help complete projects on time!! WTF???!!!
I’ve been in this trade almost 22 years, EVERY COMPANY hires sub electricians when they need them! How is this all of a sudden “ILLEGAL”??!!! Who made this “LAW” up? Can anyone please clarify WTF is going on out there? We must have been working too hard and missed the memo that wasn’t sent to us!!