The following is a letter received from an Ontario renovator. He is now in the grip of the WSIB and asks a question regarding the renovator exemption. We’ll follow up with a call to WSIB, but in the mean time, if there is any comfort, advice or information you can give him, here’s your chance.
To the editor:
Our number came up and we were randomly selected by WSIB to be audited. While we are an above board company, we have not always be fully diligent receiving all the clearance certificates and are worried that we are going to be back-charged for any smaller sub-trades who may not be registered.
This whole process got me to thinking about the bill 119 regarding mandatory coverage for construction owners. I heard that renovation companies are exempt. But if I read the FAQ on the WSIB website regarding this issue, it seems to suggest that the exemption is only for one renovator per company. Any additional partners must pay with the proviso of one additional exemption. (Please see the second half of the answer below.)
To me this means that if a company has two or more equal partners who all work some of the time on the tools, only one will be exempt and the rest will pay. The answer also says that the additional exempt individual can never spend a day on the site; so when times are busy or when a partner is on holidays we have to stay off the site or fudge our records and hope we don’t get hurt. Is that how you would read this?
I would call and ask, but they always ask for our account number and I don’t want to be flagged. It is great to have a government agency that we are forced to pay into, but that everyone is afraid to use…
Here’s what the website says:
Q. Who is exempted from Mandatory Coverage in the Construction Industry?
A. There is an exemption for Home Renovators who are contracted directly with the person occupying the residence and work exclusively in home renovation. Businesses are also allowed to select one executive officer or partner to apply for an exemption from coverage. This must be an individual who does not perform any construction work on any building site (including on-site supervision).
Leave your comments here or email: rkoci@canadiancontractor.ca
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Mike Veenhuizen
March 27, 2012
We were recently audited, and lo and behold, the auditor (who was very nice) found we had overpaid, and we now have a credit of about $3,500.00. She was not concerned about the clearance certificates we were missing because they were for small amounts. To me this is counter-intuitive, because it is usually the smaller subcontractor that is not covered, or has not done the proper paperwork regarding independent status.
Make sure you have all of your paperwork ready in advance, and the visit should be painless. Remember, the auditor is just doing their job, and you should not be angry at them for that.
Michael Zacks
March 27, 2012
Bill 119 provides that companies that do only exempt home renovation work will be exempt from mandatory coverage provisions affecting the rest of the construction sector. Home renovators that only do exempt home renovation work will not have to register with the WSIB if they are partners with no employees or independent operators. Companies with employees that only do exempt home renovation work will not have to pay premiums on the earnings of executive officers. This exemption only applies if the company only does exempt home renovation work which is generally defined as work on a residential home and the patios, fences and garages on the property, and the company directly contracts with the home owner. Companies that do exempt home renovation work but contract with a general contractor are not exempted, and will be subject to the mandatory registration requirements of Bill 119.
The OEA is offering a free webinar on April 16, 2012 where Bill 119 issues will be reviewed in depth. Companies can register on our website http://www.employeradviser.ca Anyone that has a particular issue they want to discuss can call me at 416-314-8735. There is no charge for our services, and all discussions are confidential.
Lou Orazem
March 27, 2012
We were also recently audited, and while we had a few subcontractors with no WSIB, we were given the opportunity to obtain independent operator ruling on them, which we did.
WSIB has an online system of obtaining clearance certificate. Simply search for the company by name, phone number, etc, and add them to your list. No need to call up subs anymore. They have done a great job at making it easy to obtain clearance certificates. The only reason you wouldn’t be compliant is if you deal with a subcontractor who isn’t registered with WSIB.
Bryan Fraser
March 28, 2012
It’s been almost a year since my WSIB audit and I’m almost back on my feet, the audit process took almost 3 months to complete and found me at fault for most of the problems at the WSIB. The audit turned up 3 of my usual sub contractors as non independants even though they had filled out questionaires that through the WSIB scoring system that scored them as independant operators, they then added all labour paid to any sub I had hired in that 2 year time frame and charged it to me, even 1 person who was paid approx $500.00 The only exceptions were my own employees and any contractor I had hired who was already registered and paying WSIB. The total bill when they were all done was just under 22K and of course it was owed immediately or they would put a lein on my home. I was able to get a payment plan from them at a VERY reasonable rate of 7.5% above prime (what a break). Although mandatory WSIB coverage for all in the construction trade will only serve to feed even more money into a grossly mismanaged system it at least will level the playing field as far as knowing who is and isn’t exempt, everyone pays!!!
Robert Koci
March 29, 2012
Bryan: Sounds brutal. What was your take-away from the experience? What can you tell our reader to make his current situation a bit easier? Should he get legal advice? Did you? What do you do different now to protect yourself from having to go through that again?
Dan ferguson
February 22, 2013
Hi Robert,
Do u have a bus organized for your area? And what area are you coming from?
Just want it to be public so more contractors can join the fight!
http://Www.stopwsibbill119.com
Dan
Sean Keane
March 31, 2012
My audit was 5 years ago. All of my independents were declared workers. I took three years to get passed the audit branch. After we reached the appeals level we achieved our goal of proving our people were indeed independent. In the mean time WSIB basically shutdown our ability to operate. I am currently in a lawsuit against them for their acts against me. I would like to find out more about others this happened to. I have all the information required to bring these people to justice.
jose armas
April 3, 2012
to Sean Keane I would say if you have the funds, sue their butts…. i had a similar ordeal with them many years ago and they seized funds in my account and then forced me to prove it was not their money……after nearly ten grand in legal fees and no end in site and a payment of 21 grand I had enough and my lawyer was getting no where with these clowns……….remember they have nothing else to do for their pays so they will drag it out as long as possible………a person (subtrade) who works for anyone and in any month could be on a dozen different sites. How does he or she classify them as an employee………..the bs they provide is just that, bs….they are only looking to milk more cows…….
Sometimes I wonder why the solution to the WSIB is not realized………..it is simple to dissolve them…close the doors………..what to replace it with is simple….EI premiums at a new rate and the funds to feed the extra burden is all. Self employed people in this province will pay tax at a higher rate and this gives every worker in this province coverage. No need for a unproductive cult like the WSIB.
it could be easy here in this province but easy does not work well here……sadly.
Sean Keane
July 16, 2012
You got that right I currently have a case filed in superior court. They won’t weasel their way out of this. In the past couple of years I have uncovered thousands of people who have faced this wrath. I have also uncovered many more facing the same ordeal. With the file I have compiled against this system. I can help anyone who asks. Our lawyers are also in some discussion with associates to possibly launch a class action suit. That being said associations such as the OHBA has done nothing to stop or even assist in publicizing the atrocities. Even now Michael zacks of EAS promotes how to deal with bill 119 mandatory coverage. He would better serve the public about exposing the fact bill 119 is actually illegal. Great to see randy hilliers bill 87 that will reverse the entire mess.
Alec Caldwell
April 12, 2012
After reading some of the stories of back money owed to WSIB, it’s a hard pill to swallow and once they get a hold of you, their not easily brushed off.
I constantly tell home renovators about this problem. Sometimes my advice falls on deaf ears. Some even reply that they’ve been doing this work for years without any problem.
Please make sure everyone you hire to do sub work, like electrician, plumbers or whoever, they supply you either a clearance or have a current WSIB account open and can prove it. If they can’t supply this and you need them on the job today, be prepared to submit the necessary premiums to WSIB for them. Open an account ahead of time and be prepared to use it.
Don’t think, well the jobs now finished and no one will know. WSIB will find out under audits, especially if you’ve paid sub trades or whoever by cheque or you show monies going out of your bank account to someone.
Back premiums owed can accrue to some sizable amounts and if we don’t do it right, come audit time, WSIB will get their pound of flesh, including interest.
When Bill 119 comes in to play, everyone should continue submitting premiums on sub trades and employees they hire for home renovations. The only person who is exempt is the home renovation contractor themselves; these are the ones doing the hiring.
Everyone should read Rob Koci’s “WSIB Responds” article on Canadian Contractor Magazine. Rob explains Bill 119 very clearly and about WSIB premiums. See at: http://www.canadiancontractor.ca/industry/wsib-responds
Cheers,
Alec Caldwell@CARAHS
CARAHS is a Non – Profit Organization who educates, informs and offers Benefits to self employed CONTRACTORS, RENOVATORS and HOME SERVICES in the construction industry.
Visit us at http://www.carahs.org Toll free 1-866-366-2930
Kathy Wilson
November 13, 2012
Did you all not know that a Bill 87 was read into the Legislative Assembly that if passed would REPEAL/moot all of the Bill 119 Mandatory Coverage in the Construction Industry? By McGuinty (Squinty) proroguing the Legislative Assembly that ALL WORK/ALL BILLS are KILLED!
Do you all know how this is going to work? I mean WSIB charging you on your Gross Income and 85% (if you are injured) on your NET INCOME? If you take a (minus) in your income 85% of a minus is nothing! NONE of you will ever receive a nickel if you are injured.
I have a petition going and want to get this out to all Small Businesses across Ontario. I’ve left the link to the petition but I am looking for people to contact me by e-mail and I will send you the Petition to get signatures in your area of what I have going.
Also once the Legislative Assembly starts up (hope McGuinty and all his party are in Prison beforehand) another MPP Labour Critic will once again table the Bill to have BILL 119 REPEALED with another Bill. I can’t give you the Bill number yet because they all go back to zero after McGuinty silenced all ONTARIANS voices. I will be sent this information/Petition to get signatures on that also..but we need ALL ONTARIANS in Small Business to get on board here and help fight the fight!
Contact me if you will please! There is STRENGTH IN NUMBERS folks!
Kathy Wilson
Rui Pinheiro
November 30, 2012
this bullshit we have to fight back
Dan Ferguson
February 2, 2013
Hi kathy,
we are a newly formed group that intends on stopping bill 119. We have a small committee of 10 people and are picking up some steam. Our website was just launched and our mission statement should be on it in the coming days.
We would like to know if you have made any head way on the issue and would like some input.
I can be contacted by phone at 613-220-4744 or by email at fergusondan@hotmail.com
Regards,
Dan
Kathy Wilson
February 21, 2013
Dan:
I have had my petition up since early August and as of this morning 285 signatures and counting (I still have petition sheets out with Contractors/builders/subtrades.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/independent-operators-against-bill-119-mandatory-covera.html
The above is my petition that will give you all a little insight into this in my preamble. Randy Hillier MPP PC critic is the only one working on this on behalf of small businesses and the construction industry. I will be forwarding to him all my signatures on my petition so I encourage you to sign it and get as many people as possible to sign in and QUICKLY!
I am in the Branford area and trying to get some buses lined up but they are being filled up by other cities at this point. I need people to commit and anyone on this board who is in my area you can write me at sppetbill119@gmail.com
Dan further I am in tax season and year end books but I plan to put up an information video on youtube and then share a link to all of my rebuttals to each person that spoke on this bill who should not have and that includes all the MISINFORMED MPP’s who voted for this. IF THE LIBERAL OR NDP GOVERNMENT GET IN IN THE NEXT ELECTION I LOSE ALL FAITH IN ONTARIANS. The NDP AND LIBERALS ARE working together now so hope you are all aware of that! I will be willing to send this to you as soon as I get it all done up. I will be asking people to send in a video to me of their concerns and what this bill will do to them. My plan is to broadcast throughout youtube and send it to every MPP in the Legislative Assembly to the MOL and to WSIB!
Kathy
Bill Bousfield
February 21, 2013
Please let me know if you are still fighting B- 119
I am a one of company totally against WSIB, B – 119 and these Liberal Pigs
Robert Koci
February 21, 2013
We are. Feb. 28 at Queen’s Park. Watch for the notifications.
Kathy Wilson
February 21, 2013
You can write me at sppetbill119@gmail.com
Dan ferguson
February 21, 2013
Hi everyone,
Please notify all construction trades of the protest at queens park on the 28th.
Enaugh is enaugh
Weathergard roofing
March 1, 2013
Can you send me some info I am a roofing contractor with private insurance and wsib for employees I did some sub work but that had to end in 2013 I will not cover myself with wsib I do not want them telling me what I should pay do not trust them I was audited in 2012 with no problems because I always covered my employee never use subs I will only be able to do residential work direct to homeown now no commercial or sub work this going to probably cost me and my family’s life style and we just get by now
Dan ferguson
March 1, 2013
Weather guard roofing,
Our group had its first protest at queens park yesterday February 29th and although it may take time the PC’s put forth a bill yesterday to repeal bill 119. It will take time to pass through the readings but the liberals and NDP aren’t on our side as they are usually pro union. Most contractors east of Ottawa are in the same boat as you. My suggestion tell them enaugh is enaugh and don’t pay your dues for yourself. I’m sick of their bullying and they won’t take my money
Barb LeTendre
April 24, 2013
I would love to sign your petition. WSIB has crushed my husbands company. He has been paying into his own private insurance for over 10 years now. He is a subcontractor and now we have to sell our home, move out West and change schools for our girls. They have destroyed our way of living.
They have given themselves the right to be executioner and jury.
Thanks Liberals for making Ontario one of the worse provinces to be self employed.
Claude Hachey
December 10, 2012
I don’t beleive this crap. My wife and silent partner does all accounting and payroll for our company. She has 2 hip replacement and also a knee replacement due to arthritis and must pay WSIB roofing rate of almost 14% for her gross income. We tried to tell them that she does not go on sites or on any roofs but were told that she has to pay the same rate as our company is under. no exeptions. That is robbing the small contractor and filling their pockets, it is an outrage.
Ryan
December 12, 2012
we need to take a stand why are we being forced to deal with wsib when pencorp and other small private places can offer big returns when u retire and you’re still fully covered with no questions. goes against the charter of rights and we shouldnt be forced in this country to pay for a 14 million dollar dept. check this link out sign your name and share with everyone you know.
dept.http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/independent-operators-against-bill-119-mandatory-covera.html
Robert Armes
December 26, 2012
Okay wsib is nothing more than a bunch of thugs and scammers looking to rip off small business people. They are nothing more than a tax collection agency there to justify their grossly over paid salaries and the bottomless pit of ohip.
Listen up people, if god forbid you get hurt, they are not there to help you, it’s to fund ohip, you still need private disability or your family will starve.
They do not care about you at all, do not register with them, do not hire employees, do not allow these people into your life. If you need more man power, form a corporation of your company and very carefully select new partners.
Do not hire sub trades, let everyone work directly for the home owner, these people are out of toutch with reality. Think about it, do you want to expose yourself to some fat cat beaurocrat who can at any time walk in, throw you over a barrel and risk your family home or assets?
All business people need to do a risk to reward assesment and any way you look at it wsib is all risk and no reward, let them go bankrupt.
STOP THE WSIB
January 18, 2013
Everyone needs to STOP REGISTERING WITH THE WSIB. If the entire industry turned their backs on them and ignored them and stopped registering with them they would have no leg to stand on and they couldn’t do a damn thing about it.
Our fear is driving their criminal greed. Nothing more.
THE WSIB OPERATES ON CONSENT. If no one registered and no one responded or corresponded with them then NO MORE WSIB. it’s that simple.
Kathy Wilson
February 21, 2013
Well if this BILL is not repealed I have another way of making them listen and I will fully put this out to all of you what our GOAL should be for the NEXT STEP!
STOP THE WSIB
January 18, 2013
And if you think that Mr. Homeowner who is getting some work done to his deck gives a damn about whether or not you participate in the WSIB you are dead wrong. As long as you have private liability insurance to cover damage to his house then it is no problem. Homeowners will line up around the block to condemn the WSIB especially when they see a lower cost for their work as a result. Simply pass some of the savings from not participating in WSIB on to the homeowner and they won’t complain one bit. Pay all workers as independent sub contractors.
Besides a PC victory in the next election will see Bill 119 repealed anyways so FEAR NOT THE WSIB AND DO NOT PARTICIPATE OR EVEN REGISTER.
Strength in numbers they don’t have the manpower to go after every independent contractor in Ontario.
Murray Alce
January 26, 2013
I might as well park my van, walk accross the street and work at our local Tim Hortons.Less hrs,stress and more money, and I want have to pay WIB.
Sandra Haddad
February 1, 2013
Hi there,
I have been invovled in WSIB for over 25 years and have never encountered more frustration from our employer clients than in the past year. Workers are also frustrated.
The system is broken, but the present approach does not consider the interests of those who fund the system and/or those caught up in the transitional change. There is very little trust in the system.
Sure there needs to be change, but certainly the cookie cutter solutions they are mandating is hurting many businesses and individuals in the transitional phases.
Robert Koci
February 1, 2013
In what way have you been connected to the WSIB? Do you work as an employee? Are you a subcontractor for them?
john
February 2, 2013
Hi
My experience with WSIB. They were not interested
in helping improve safety on the job site or advise on
how I can stream line the payment of dues (my rate was %10).
My total conversation was by phone and letters, basically I owe WSIB $7000.00. “pay us
or we will take you to court and will cost double”. I payed the amount. I called
WSIB told them I just laid off my 2 employees, sold of the F150 + cargo trailer.
(The contracting was a second business) That was 2 years ago.
If you don’t know WSIB stakes out Home Depo’s and record licence plates of
trucks loaded with building material. WSIB and CRA working together to weed out
the underground contractors. If you think you will not be caught because you
drive and unmarked F150 think again.
Dan
February 21, 2013
All frustrated I contractors, we have a protest happening February 28th 2013 at queens park Down town Toronto at 10 am against wsib bill 119. If its too far or you work that day take it off ! !!! Join the fight one day can save you thousands a year so it is well worth it. Visit our web site at http://www.stopwsibbill119.com
We have lined up multiple speakers for provincial parlement on this day including local mp grant crank (liberal) and multiple people from the PC party who have always been against this bill.
Enaugh is enaugh
Dan
Kathy Wilson
February 21, 2013
I’ve read some pretty amazing attitudes by some on this board in stating “buck up it’s about time” I would just like to state to that WE OPENED OUR BUSINESSES BY THE LAW, FOLLOWED THE LAW, but this is an EXTORTION on small businesses who ARE CREATING THE JOBS in Ontario for the unemployed. We are covered better by Private Insurance and I fight the WSIB for people who have not SEEN A NICKEL FOR OVER 21 YEARS! The WSIB higher ups take lavished vacations and pay for their kids weddings on WSIB premiums how do you all feel who are stating it’s time to buck up and pay into it? Your monies are being misspent now, injured workers are not being paid so how in the hell do you all think that we small businesses are now the EMPLOYER and the EMPLOYEE.. they will take 100% of our Gross Income and pay us 85% on Net Income (if they believe the injury occurred on a jobsite and M-F. Come on negative ones when are you going to see the light on this. I have rebutted every damn UNION and MPP who spoke on this bill in the Legislative Assembly each and every word and they were all wrong on so many issues it makes me sick. THIS IS A CASH GRAB AND EXTORTION AND A CLASS ACTION SUIT CAN BE PLACED UPON THIS LIBERAL GOVERNMENT/LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY for pecuniary damages, so I would watch for your premiums to go up drastically when we are all forced OUT OF BUSINESS. 14.8 billion is what they are saying WSIB is in debt I would push it closer myself to 25 – 30 billion! WSIB last year on people I looked after who fought for 15 – 22 years were paid handsomely in ACCRUED interest in the hundreds of thousands after years of arbitration, to me that is not wise how WSIB takes its time to pay out INJURED WORKERS. Now, the bad part is they (the people who won) owe all that money back to ODSP/CPP disability and some of these men/women are now of retirement age so they were damned “as making too much money and they were not entitled to OAS because of being paid 21 years + interest) I fought and got them their pensions back as they aren’t so rich as the CRA thought they’d be in this. Once everyone was paid back there was very little left! POOR MISMANAGEMENT AT WSIB AND THEY, are crooks and thieves period!
For any of you who are in the Brantford and surrounding area I am trying to arrange buses leaving from Brantford to this rally if you are interested please send me an e-mail! I need a COMMITMENT and money up front so I’m not out of pocket for it!
Kathy